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A few basic questions.


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#521 jokeUsa

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 08:12 PM

Another weird question - can crit oriented professions's take advantage of Steal on higher level mobs?
If the Wiki formula is correct, with my 13 dex, I now have (Item Drop Rate x (-65))% of a chance to get anything from Big Bells....is this correct?

Additionally, can a ranger take advantage of Gank? If not, then it's kind of sad to see my Brilliant Golden Wings go to waste ;(
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#522 jokeUsa

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 06:32 AM

View PostjokeUsa, on 29 June 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

Another weird question - can crit oriented professions's take advantage of Steal on higher level mobs?
If the Wiki formula is correct, with my 13 dex, I now have (Item Drop Rate x (-65))% of a chance to get anything from Big Bells....is this correct?

Additionally, can a ranger take advantage of Gank? If not, then it's kind of sad to see my Brilliant Golden Wings go to waste ;(
Any1?
Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.

#523 jokeUsa

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:51 PM

Tested the above myself and it appears that you do need high dex and it does only work with melee.

Another question though: Guillotine Fist Sura - 2xAK Carga Mace or 1xAK Blue Mace, which is better? Or are there any better options?
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#524 Nereida

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 04:16 PM

I'll add a question since I don't have the means to test:
Can costumes interfere with headgear effects when forging/brewing?

Yesterday I wa using my forgesmith (99 DEX 99 LUC) which is equipped with a baby leopard silk robe, zealotus buckler, full Morrigane set, excalibur, pet poring... and C coppola.
Buffs were blessing and gloria.
So first I forged VVS elemental lances 10 times. I failed 9 times. Then I got food buffs for DEX and LUC (+10 each, so that should be an extra 2% success rate or so) and unequipped my c coppola, letting that morrigane's helm shine. I tried 5 more lance forges and, lo and behold, succeded 3 times and failed 2

So that's kind of what puzzles me. Was taking off the costume meaningful or was I just super unlucky? Has anyone else experienced something similar?
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#525 foobar

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:57 PM

View PostjokeUsa, on 17 July 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Guillotine Fist Sura - 2xAK Carga Mace or 1xAK Blue Mace, which is better?

Disclaimer, I may have forgotten something, and/or my maths may be rusty. Use with appropriate care.

Quoting the ATK page of irowiki:
  • RaceMultiplier, SizeMultiplier, TargetPropertyMultiplier, MonsterMultiplier, ATKMultiplier and PropertyMultiplier are applied to this in that particular order
The AK Blue Mace %ATK modifiers will then be 1.2 * 1.25, hence 1.5
The Double AK Carga Mace %ATK modifiers will be 1 + 0.25 + 0.25, hence 1.5

Both weapon yields the same ATK modifiers, but they differ in 5 atk (in favor of Carga Mace).
So the Carga Mace increase to the total ATK is roughly equal to : (5 + 5 * str/200) * 1.5

But the Blue Mace adds +5 INT, and according to irowiki it gives you +5% total SP in the end.

Given that the damage formula for Guillotine Fist is ATK * (8 + SP/10). How much STR do you need to compensate the increase in SP ?

(5 + 5 * STR/200) * 1.5 > 8 + (SP * 1.05 - SP)/10

Let us say the SP is a vairable named x, and the STR a variable named y. Multiply both terms by 200 to get rid of all fractions:

(200 * 5 + (200 * 5 * y / 200)) * 1.5 > 200 * 8 + 200 * (x * 1.05 - x) / 10
1500+ 7.5y > 1600 + x
7.5y > x + 100

This is a linear inequality with 2 variables. It is best represented as a graph. The horizontal axis will be the current SP value your character has before equipping the Blue Mace. The vertical axis will be the STR to reach to benefit more from Carga Mace than Blue Mace.

We will trace the line materializing the frontier of the inequality using common math conventions: 7.5y = x + 100
This line crosses the x axis (y = 0) at x = -100.
This line crosses the y axis (x = 0) at y = 100/7.5, 13.33 approx.

Trace the line (https://www.desmos.com/calculator), locate your current SP, and if your STR is above the line, go for Carga, otherwise, Blue Mace will be better.

For example, a Sura with 3000 SP would need over 400 STR to get a better damage with a Double AK Carga Mace.

View PostjokeUsa, on 17 July 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Or are there any better options?

The best mace currently available for GFist is in my opinion the Quadrille[2] dropped in NCT.
Should the future Robot's Mechanical Arm from Charleston instance can be equiped by Sura, then it will surely become the top choice. The Crimson Mace, if it lands on the server someday could also be an interesting choice if highly upgraded.
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#526 jokeUsa

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 05:02 PM

Whoa, I didn't think that somebody would go so far to explain it /hmm
Thanks though, much appreciated!

Edit, actually:

Quote

Both weapon yields the same ATK modifiers, but they differ in 5 atk (in favor of Carga Mace).
Isn't Blue Mace 190 Atk? As in 15 more than Carga Mace? Or am I not understanding something here?

Also: regular Quadrille can be Malangdo-enchanted. Is this the case for Quadrille [2]? IroWiki doesn't have any info on this.
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#527 foobar

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:02 PM

I used RMS database to obtain Carga and Blue Mace data. I was not at home when I wrote the post.
Should the Blue Mace has more atk than Carga then there is no way the Carga can be better than the Blue Mace I think. Well, unless you enter an instance and suffer the premium bug of course.

I do not think the Quadrille[2] can be enchanted. Irowiki usuall puts a note when this is the case (cf Golden Mace, Grand Cross, ...)
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#528 jokeUsa

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:57 PM

So I guess Blue Mace would still be better than Quadrile? Or, perhaps, only to a certain point being low-mid upgrade level (blue mace is lvl3, quadrille is lvl4).
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#529 foobar

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:17 PM

I do not think so.

Double AK Quadrille, on Undead or Earth property boss will have an ATK modifier equal to 1.5 * 1.1 = 1.65.
This modifier will also apply to the refinement bonus (which for level 4 weapon is better than lvl 3). So all in one, I think that for some Sura whom have access to huge ATK equipment, the Quadrille may be a better choice. Single or Double Meg Suras for example should definitively benefit from it.

I have to admit I am a bit tired to do the maths tonight ;-)
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#530 jokeUsa

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 09:35 PM

Yea but there are only a handful of undead and earth MvPs. Hmmm......
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#531 jokeUsa

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:56 AM

View Postfoobar, on 20 July 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

I do not think so.

Double AK Quadrille, on Undead or Earth property boss will have an ATK modifier equal to 1.5 * 1.1 = 1.65.
This modifier will also apply to the refinement bonus (which for level 4 weapon is better than lvl 3). So all in one, I think that for some Sura whom have access to huge ATK equipment, the Quadrille may be a better choice. Single or Double Meg Suras for example should definitively benefit from it.

I have to admit I am a bit tired to do the maths tonight ;-)

Coming back to this, I'm wondering about another option: what about a +12 RWC Mace (without an RWC Ring - aiming for gloves of shura +phen carded diab. ring)?
In general, that would be 100+120 ATK at +12, multiplied by 1.25 from the card and 1.1 from the weapon's upgrade bonus, right? Wouldn't that be about 300 atk at the end? Compared to about 285 of a Blue Mace (190*1,25*1.2, not counting the INT bonus).

Also, where is the weapon's upgrade level in this formula? Moreover, on the other hand, Blue Mace's base ATK is 190, compared to RWC - wouldn't Blue Mace have a LOT more damage due to high str bonus?

And lastly, I've seen some people mentioning 2xGloves of Sura builds but how do you secure yourself from adds interrupting the skill?
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