RAGNARÖK ONLINE Site officiel : www.ragnarokeurope.com

Jump to content


Are Exp Viewers allowed?


100 replies to this topic

#1 Fuzzy.

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1004 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 21 June 2016 - 05:58 PM

I'm wondering if pure exp reader & displays are allowed.
To show current / needed exp and calculate estimates till the next level up.

Not hooked into the client, seperate piece, just reading from system memory.

I know they're pretty much allowed on every server there is, and have been so here in the past. But since it's been a while i just wanted to make sure again.

#2 Ridly

    Poporing

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 376 posts

Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:25 PM

should count as 3rd party tools > forbidden
why not use the "exp gained" option in chat tabs?

#3 Szaki

    Poporing

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 425 posts
  • LocationHungary

Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:29 PM

3rd party programs are forbidden to use.
"He who is brave and patient enough to peer into the darkness his whole life will be first to see a flicker of light in it."

#4 Fuzzy.

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1004 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:43 PM

Well, it does not interact with the game in a way that alters the client or hooks into it or something like this. Neither does it display otherwise inaccessible information. And they have generally always been allowed without question.
Even iRo currently allows exp viewers without restriction since it would technically be possible to calculate this stuff in your head and it's just for convenience.

Also the Tree of saviour staff instantly allowed exp viewer addons when asked. (it's a bit distant, but just another example of the harmlessness.)

#5 Shahila

    Shahila [Leader of °OldSchool°]

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1228 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 21 June 2016 - 08:09 PM

I can simply confirm what Ridly and Szaki said. I asked the GM's about exp readers some time a go and they told me that I am not allowed to use them. Posted Image

View PostFuzzy., on 21 June 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

Well, it does not interact with the game in a way that alters the client or hooks into it or something like this. Neither does it display otherwise inaccessible information. And they have generally always been allowed without question.
Even iRo currently allows exp viewers without restriction since it would technically be possible to calculate this stuff in your head and it's just for convenience.

Also the Tree of saviour staff instantly allowed exp viewer addons when asked. (it's a bit distant, but just another example of the harmlessness.)

Seems like you have to convince the GM's and Korea to implement such a reader here. Posted Image

#6 Fuzzy.

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1004 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 21 June 2016 - 08:14 PM

Just quoting from here (official iro forum / official post):
https://forums.warpp...-party-program/

Quote

Edge cases that we don't explicitly ban for.
- Recording tools like Fraps, it isn't playing for you, or modifying/reading data you shouldn't otherwise have access too.
- EXP calculators/monitors : You could calculate in your head if you were pating attention to the battle readout, plus this is a tool that we explicitly want to allow because we think it is useful.

That's why i ask about the current situation here. And wait for an official answer to not have all the guess-work.

It also does not add any actual gameplay benefits/advantages.

#7 boneto666

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1705 posts
  • LocationInterior of the Midgards Allied Forces Post

Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:14 AM

I wouldn't use it unless a GM says it is okay to do so.

Regards
a little hair, a lot of beard and a baby!

#8 Shoushiken

    Marin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 617 posts
  • LocationProntera

Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:39 AM

View PostRidly, on 21 June 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

why not use the "exp gained" option in chat tabs?

This is a rather poor alternative if op is interested in exp / hour, or even a plot of the exp over time.

In my opinion, prohibited third party tools should be limited to the ones that give an unfair advantage to a player. I honestly don't see how a tool that polls the player's exp and EWMAs it over time is any advantage. When I want to know how a party is doing I look at the clock and my %-bar, keep the value in mind and look at the percentage again 30 minutes later - thus, getting a very rough estimate of the exp / h. This is just tedious and I'd rather be allowed to use a tool to take care of that.
Posted Image<- thank you, Nevina <3

#9 Fuzzy.

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1004 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:01 PM

What i have in mind would be based on the probably best known tree of savior exp viewer addon:
Posted Image

nothing more. To see kills left until level up and a time estimate.

#10 CoffeeMachine

    Bangungot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 593 posts

Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:22 PM

Banning for stuff like this would be pretty boneheaded if you ask me.

#11 Fuzzy.

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1004 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:29 PM

So are some other decisions that actually have been made on this sever. *cough*

#12 CoffeeMachine

    Bangungot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 593 posts

Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:33 PM

View PostFuzzy., on 22 June 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

So are some other decisions that actually have been made on this sever. *cough*

"some" *coughs*

#13 Fuzzy.

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1004 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 25 June 2016 - 05:10 PM

I feel this is going the "if we ignore him long enough, he'll probably go away" line...

#14 Volvox

    Marin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 602 posts

Posted 25 June 2016 - 05:18 PM

Just for completion and because it was mentioned earlier, there was a new post on the Tree of Savior HP yesterday:

https://treeofsavior.com/news/?n=503

Very vague and wouldnt be clear enough for me to use any addons to be sure..

#15 Fuzzy.

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1004 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 25 June 2016 - 06:04 PM

I wouldn't say it's vague. It actually gives a lot of information.

If we were to go by their list:

Quote

2-1) Add-ons that fall under the following categories are strictly prohibited and will be penalized to a far greater degree.
i. Tampering the client files to allow abnormal activities
ii. Automating certain actions within the game that violate normal gameplay mechanics
iii. Deceiving or creating confusion amongst the players

A simple exp viewer would not
-tamper with client files
-automate actions within the game
-deceive or create confusion amonst players

I'm eagerly waiting for their list of ok and not-ok addons.

#16 jokeUsa

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1628 posts

Posted 25 June 2016 - 06:40 PM

View PostFuzzy., on 25 June 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

I'm eagerly waiting for their list of ok and not-ok addons.
Posted Image
Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.

#17 Szaki

    Poporing

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 425 posts
  • LocationHungary

Posted 25 June 2016 - 07:02 PM

View PostFuzzy., on 25 June 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

I'm eagerly waiting for their list of ok and not-ok addons.
I recommend asking the staff directly.
"He who is brave and patient enough to peer into the darkness his whole life will be first to see a flicker of light in it."

#18 Fuzzy.

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1004 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 25 June 2016 - 08:28 PM

View PostSzaki, on 25 June 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

I recommend asking the staff directly.
that thing about ok and non-ok addons is from tree of savior, there's probably no such thing ever coming here.
From what I'm aware of here, asking staff directly involves weeks of waiting and a nonsense reply in the end.
So i was hoping a forum thread would yield a quicker, more thoughful discussion with GMs, than some person giving a stupid reply in a secret 1:1 conversation.
Here they have to prove knowledge about the topic or risk a backlash.

Edit:
I wonder if i developed an exp viewer and send it over the f.a.q. page with "I've developed a tool and would like your support.", if i would risk my account because during development i must have tested it.
That would be uncool.

Edited by Fuzzy., 25 June 2016 - 09:34 PM.


#19 Shoushiken

    Marin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 617 posts
  • LocationProntera

Posted 25 June 2016 - 11:05 PM

View PostFuzzy., on 25 June 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

I wonder if i developed an exp viewer and send it over the f.a.q. page with "I've developed a tool and would like your support.", if i would risk my account because during development i must have tested it.
That would be uncool.

Interesting question.. I would assume they'll handle it with common sense, meaning the worst thing that could happen would be a: "No, don't distribute this and don't use it". Can't guarantee it, though.

The only difficult thing when developing one is where to take the EXP value from.. the two options would be peeking around in the process memory (ReadProcessMemory) or capturing it on the network (WinPCap). Neither of those would be a piece of cake and the network one isn't even worth a try.
For the other one it would either be a daunting task to constantly find out and publish memory addresses, or you'd have to develop a more advanced method of intelligently finding the EXP value through a mix of pattern matching and address tree walking... too much of a hassle in my book /shy
Posted Image<- thank you, Nevina <3

#20 jokeUsa

    Mastering

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1628 posts

Posted 25 June 2016 - 11:23 PM

View PostShoushiken, on 25 June 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

exp bar

You know, this whole exp viewer thingy reminded me of when I used to play Tibia, like 10 years ago, when it still didn't have skill bars.
Good old times on Eternia :)
Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users