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Banned (by GM_06) for using Level 6 Bow Mercenary with Custom AI (AZZY AI)


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#1 Banned for Bow Mercenary

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:43 PM

If you delete this post you harm my rights of „freedom of speech“ and „freedom of expression“, I will make an screenshot of this topic and if necessary i will add this to the report i will sent to Whybe.

Dear Ragnarok Players,

it happened to me, I was getting banned for basically doing nothing, I was in Ant-Hell standing AFK at the entrance and I got banned for „Kill Stealing“. But first things first: I was not playing activ while my mercenary was attacking Ant-Eggs and then a Player from LON (i will not say any names he was just mad, he did nothing wrong) came and was flaming me for the same thing he was doing, using an Mercenary! (which makes me wondering why he doesn’t recive a bann aswell… but back to the topic)

I was just AFK watching some movies and (approx) every 10 Minutes checking if my mercenary timed out, just the stuff you do when you level AFK. (While getting flamed from this guy.) He even got so mad, he killed me 2 times with Deadbranches, I had it on tape but then i recived an Bann and everyone knows, when you get kicked or time-out your Recording is getting canceled, so i can’t proof that unfortunatly.

After some time and 2-3 people of LON Bulling me it happened, i got banned by GM_06, the reason … Killstealing!

I admit i was using AZZY AI, which is basically an Custom AI, which is no 3rd Party Programm, it is an AI which you can activate or deactivate intentionally ingame while typing /HOAI or /MERAI. (which is no custom Command, it is an legit game command). This AI is working for Homunculus and Mercenary and it is the way to go if you want to use an custom AI. The funny thing is, this AI has even an Option which disables Kill Stealing and my option was disabled, so basically if his mercenary attacked first, mine would have gotten off of this mob. So i did everything i can do to prevent Kill Stealing while using this Ingame intentional implemented Method to level UP afk.
This is the reason why my Account got banned.

So lets summarize what happend:
· I was the victim of offensiv language
· I was killed intentionally from those Players with Dead Branches
· I was getting Banned for doing nothing illegal

But it hasn’t stopped there, I wanted to talk to the supervisor of GM_06. That for I pmed GM_06 on Discord and he denied me that option which is basically dening me ART. 77 of the GDPR General Data Protection RegulatioN
So I couldn’t even fight back his false decission. But I sent an E-Mail to the support team of fRO and it says in this E-Mail that i want this topic handled by the supervisior of GM_06.

So if i can’t speak to the supervisor i will give this topic to my law ensurance company.

If the bann was an right decission I will report any Alchemist, Genetic and Biochemist (in Orc Dungeon) in this game :‘) because they do that all the time and even use Auto Feed Programms which are real 3rd Party Programms and therefore illegal on this server.


And if these Players dont recive an Bann aswell, i might add another law to the list. Because i was not threaten equal or i was discriminated by GM_06.


#2 JamesWindsor

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 04:02 PM

You can edit your mercenary to not Kill-steal.

Close topic, Next please!

#3 Feldgrille

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 04:31 PM

View PostJamesWindsor, on 24 October 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

You can edit your mercenary to not Kill-steal.

Close topic, Next please!

Learn to read, he did ^^

#4 Rincewine

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 09:56 PM

Just post your replay here so the public can see if you Ks or not

#5 Banned for Bow Mercenary

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 04:48 AM

View PostBanned for Bow Mercenary, on 24 October 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

I had it on tape but then i recived an Bann and everyone knows, when you get kicked or time-out your Recording is getting canceled, so i can’t proof that unfortunatly.

Please i think thats a very serious discussion, only post something if you read this thread carefully =)

#6 Norsk

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 09:08 AM

In the end stating "freedom of speech" and "freedom of expression" kills already every discussion even if you have a good point here.

How should it' actually even be possible to killsteal at ant eggs?
- Ant eggs are usually down with 1-2 hits
- I can use my mercenary to do an AOE on the field while killing everything in a single hit
- Still there is an unwritten rule that says if a field is occupied, you simply go to the next one as else nobody will benefit from it at all
- Even homunculus and mercenaries can killsteal with the proper AI setting (for example when both targetting and hitting at the same time)

I think it was just someone who was pissed and called the GM. When he killed you with Dead Branches usually he should be the one who gets banned.
It's not really logic nor really fair.

#7 Nightroad

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 11:40 AM

You can't disable kill steal completely because of some corner case like:
  • AI gets info that someone is also attacking mob after casting AOE skill
  • AOE skill does KS
But that problem should be known to GMs and prevents to ban from such thing. Other option to prevent is just letting 1 player farming 1 area of eggs but that is also unfair.

And last but not least - disable AOE.

#8 alanarmys

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 11:48 AM

This is quite sad about the GM behaviour, no wonder alot of player's in the past left cuz of how things are handled by GM's. Alot of player's told me and have alot of proof about bug abuse and other reports that happened but nothing was done. Sent emails after emails. The only answer is we have sent to korea. I feel very bad for this person that got verbal assaulted and discriminated by the GM's. Not understanding the player's reasoning and got banned for not doing anything illegal. I want this game to grow great again and more players in the server. It should be handled properly next time, plus there's not alot of player's in this server so it should be easily fixed compared to thai server where there are more than 8000 player's and not alt accs like in this server. I don't want to say bad things about GM's but please be more assertive and how people feel, not like just business people. More people more money for you, think about it.

#9 Songooo

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 12:01 PM

- Still there is an unwritten rule that says if a field is occupied, you simply go to the next one as else nobody will benefit from it at all


Golden rule, if ppl just respect that it wouldn't end in situations like 15 genetics on one hydra's spawn :)

You rush to some spot where already are people, as am reading already 2-3, start this one hit mob down (not KS :D) / logging chars sick game :) it never ends well . Still opening db isnt very nice way to do doh, but to make someone to loss zeny on something like that had to have its drive from something :)

It never is one sided matter, and GM can see whole situation on logs so dont get too much carried ppl. Btw afk exp is allowed :?D i thought you can use azii ai and so but have to be always at game (thats just offtopic xD)
Life is but a dream.

#10 1c3Cr3aM

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 12:29 PM

for me, the release of Homu & Merc was just a complete fail.
"afk leveling" in an online Game, i dont get it.
www.twitch.tv/1c3Cr3aMTV

#11 Teatime

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 12:41 PM

I already witnessed so many hate and dispute concerning those Ant Eggs.

To be honest, WhyBe should just remove the Exp from Ant Eggs.

Amongst other things like killing other people with BDs/BBs, so many new players sent to those Eggs as a "good levelplace" just get bored and quit the game...

#12 Songooo

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 02:00 PM

View PostTeatime, on 25 October 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

I already witnessed so many hate and dispute concerning those Ant Eggs.

To be honest, WhyBe should just remove the Exp from Ant Eggs.

Amongst other things like killing other people with BDs/BBs, so many new players sent to those Eggs as a "good levelplace" just get bored and quit the game...

On iro they boosted egg spawn locations xD but I agree its too easy :D so in the end its maybe ok there are so few of them at least you have to socialize in good or bad way , at least it has still online game perks xDD
Life is but a dream.

#13 Norsk

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 02:33 PM

Sorry but I think it's not for discussion if Ant Eggs are good or bad place, more if it can be considered as kill stealing and if it's even worth to discuss / take action on this. In my opinion the GM overreacted and based his action not really on any facts, this is actually what worries me.

By the way: I don't know how long you usually stay at Ant Eggs but I see it only for leveling low characters (max. from 18-28) or Homunculus (max. to 80).
After that there are so many better places so I don't see why anyone should get bored and quit this game nor why it should be too easy.

#14 Teatime

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 02:54 PM

View PostNorsk, on 25 October 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

Sorry but I think it's not for discussion if Ant Eggs are good or bad place, more if it can be considered as kill stealing and if it's even worth to discuss / take action on this. In my opinion the GM overreacted and based his action not really on any facts, this is actually what worries me.

By the way: I don't know how long you usually stay at Ant Eggs but I see it only for leveling low characters (max. from 18-28) or Homunculus (max. to 80).
After that there are so many better places so I don't see why anyone should get bored and quit this game nor why it should be too easy.

If you go for a closer look, you can see that there are people afk-leveling almost 24/7 for the whole year at this spot. Not only until lvl 28.

I've seen many people quarreling about those spots.


So in my opinion the GMs should do the following things:

Step 1: unban "Banned for Bow Mercenary"

Step 2: remove exp from Ant Eggs

#15 Banned for Bow Mercenary

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 02:56 PM

I got this Response:

Quote

Good Morning,



According to your e-mail, the account has been banned for no reason which, in this case, is not true. Indeed, as RO_GM06 already told you, the account has been banned because it used an AI Tool that managed a Mercenary set to kill steal.



The 5 days of banishment from our server is in accordance with our General Terms 6.4 which states as follows:



"The user will abstain from harassing and threatening any particular user or other users."



You agreed with these guidelines by playing on our server and failing to comply leads to a partial or permanent banishment from our server for the account that broke the rules


.



Best regards,


GM Krathius



they still denie me the opportunity to talk to their Supervisor and i was asking for the Video because due to the INGAME RULES
https://forum.ragnar...2-ingame-rules/

they Need an Video to bann me =) i will post this Video then so everyone can see that i didn't KS


and About the AOE Discussion, i was using Bow Mercenary Level 6 it has Dopple Stafe Level 7 not Arrow Shower...

#16 Wizzzzard

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 02:59 PM

Well one of the problems with the "don't kill steal" option of the AzzyAI is that it works by detecting if the monster is attacking someone else. If the monster is not attacking or is just following a player (mobbing) the anti kill steal detection doesn't work. For the later (mobbing) the AzzyAI still got the option not to attack moving monsters which doesn't apply here either as the eggs don't move.

Your homunculus/mercenary is/was always treated as your skill, so it doesn't matter if your homun/merc attacks monsters another player already attacks or you attack it with your weapon or other skills. It is also the user's responsibility to check if their 3rd party AIs (like your AzzyAI) confirm with the rules. If you trusted the "No kill steal" option without testing if it works as intended it is your own fault, too. You are of course allowed to use the AzzyAI but as per ingame rules you need to make sure it doesn't KS!

I'm no lawyer but to me the Article 77 doesn't sound like it applies in this case. "[...]if the data subject considers that the processing of personal data relating to him or her infringes this Regulation" because
a) I don't really think that character data counts as personal data (you don't own your character, Gravity does) and
b) Which GDPR regulation did they infringe regarding your personal data?
(Like I said I'm no lawyer so my interpretation of law gibberish might be wrong^^)

Discord is not the FAQ/Support page! While you might be lucky and the GMs will help you there, the only official way to get support is over the FAQ page! (See Discord Server - Ragnarok Europe Official, and Terms Art. 16)

Ingame Rules

Quote

[...]
10.Third Party Program / Client Modification
No client modification or third party program usage is allowed except for programs that controls Homonculus / Mercenaries AIs with the following conditions:
- No kill stealing.
[...]

Article 77 of the GDPR (stripped of formatting)

Quote

Art. 77 GDPR
Right to lodge a complaint with a supervisory authority
  • Without prejudice to any other administrative or judicial remedy, every data subject shall have the right to lodge a complaint with a supervisory authority, in particular in the Member State of his or her habitual residence, place of work or place of the alleged infringement if the data subject considers that the processing of personal data relating to him or her infringes this Regulation.
  • The supervisory authority with which the complaint has been lodged shall inform the complainant on the progress and the outcome of the complaint including the possibility of a judicial remedy pursuant to Article 78.

General Terms Art. 16

Quote

Article 16. Customer service and technical support
For any information on the Game, you can contact Whybe Online Customer Service, accessible through the "Help" section of the Site.
Technical and commercial information (FAQ) on the Game is also available in the "HELP" section of the Site.


#17 Songooo

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 03:38 PM

View PostBanned for Bow Mercenary, on 25 October 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

"The user will abstain from harassing and threatening any particular user or other users."

This seems more like 'bad words' in chat case. Nothing to do with merc or ai, what is this topic even about xD ?
Life is but a dream.

#18 Wizzzzard

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 03:53 PM

I guess you can interpret kill stealing as a form of harassment

#19 Nightroad

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 04:15 PM

View PostBanned for Bow Mercenary, on 25 October 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

The 5 days of banishment from our server is in accordance with our General Terms 6.4 which states as follows:

Well, 5 days isn't that much of a deal anyway. Hopefully you'll get the recording proving whether ban was right or not. Right now it's only your story without a proof. And saying that recording isn't able because client closed / no logs / etc doesn't change that. And keep in mind that suggesting "some GM banned you because of no reason" might extend your ban.

Also if you see any code of conduct violation and GM doesn't react - take a screenshot or recording and send it to support and they will take action if the request is relevant. Offensive language, threats, killing with dead branches - that's like 3 reasons to report when you have proof and you're sure that you absolutely did nothing wrong.

View PostWizzzzard, on 25 October 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

Well one of the problems with the "don't kill steal" option of the AzzyAI is that it works by detecting if the monster is attacking someone else. If the monster is not attacking or is just following a player (mobbing) the anti kill steal detection doesn't work. For the later (mobbing) the AzzyAI still got the option not to attack moving monsters which doesn't apply here either as the eggs don't move.

Exactly - for example if the hom have poor accuracy and miss like 5 or 10 hits and your hom/merc kills the mob it's still Kill-Steal. Aggro is set with first hit.

#20 Banned for Bow Mercenary

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 07:05 PM

You guys seem to miss a very very very important point. The reason why i got Banned and what I did to recive the Bann, it doesn't matter how long i am banned...

there are several players who use makro for autopot, spam with their dragonbreath, use autoaim bot, WPE to do Castle defense, flaming each other hard, stealing stuff from other Players, autofeed...

as a Player who wants to fight against all this stuff, it is freaking hard to get the gms to do something about it.... i am attacking the highest GM in this game now and try to show up what he does wrong and try to change something that happens on this server, because i love this game … all of a sudden they try now to fix dragonbreath FINALLY … i reported several times a dragonbreath Spammer, but when you Point your finger on an GM, finally they try to fix something…. Maybe it is an coincidence but i am not willing to belive that so I will continue.


it was like the time when mimimi and fockers did their Protests.... finally something changed on the Server, and i'm willing to fight for that and i even contacted my law ensurence Company and i explained them what happened and they say i am Right and i just have to sent them the files and they will go against this Company or this GM. I just wait for their answer now Maybe they will finally give me the email of their boss… if not i am going for my first lawsuit :/

just think About what they promised us?
How Long are we waiting for the Rebellion update?
For a fix for this damn cheaters, and they get more and more, because People are frustrated to fight against the cheaters - Just check out the Asgard Castle defense in Bergel! 6 Loki Characters obviously played by WPE and all 6 are just spamming Song of Despair on the same cell with instand cast so you dont even see them spamming. And our GMs have no clue whats Happening there, if i just set one of them inside they would think, everything is fine there…. and i think they have no clue how to figure out if someone is cheating, and i am not even mad about Asgard to use this cheating method, because it is their only chance to fight against other cheaters….. so well done Asgard well done… you did the best cheating defense so far...





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